SHAZBOT!

How to be a spy – by tehPete

How to Play Soldier – by Nophysicalbody

Note: This video has had the audio removed but still has captions

The following is a post in the steam forums from AppleDonkey in December 07. It’s a little dated seeing as there have been so many updates and fixes since as well as characheter updates that have introduced new weapons, but still this is quite a detailed post and one of the best weapon damage guides available on the net.

About
I had certain questions about weapon damage I tried to find answers to in various forums I couldn’t find. I found Promii’s dmg breakdown, but since it didn’t take into account the speed at which the weapons fired it wasn’t too helpful to know the pyro flame does 15 dmg or that the machine pistol does less damage then the normal pistol (which fires at a much slower rate). I also wanted to really know which melee weapon was better, because there’s a lot of discussion going around about what is better – the faster swinging baseball bat or the other higher dmg melee. To do any of this I needed to find the number that really mattered: damage per second.

To do this I had to determine rate of fire, which I feel I did nearly as accurately as possible.

Then the numbers started to look a little more applicable. Instead of flamethrower being the weakest weapon it was the 2nd best point blank weapon. As I was compiling the numbers however a problem came up. Things like the heavy weapon gun came up as the best long range weapon. The reason was because dmg x rate of fire doesn’t account for total of bullets that actually hit your target. So I needed to calculate the accuracy at the 3 different ranges. Then after plugging all the new numbers in it started to look better and minigun became 2nd to worst long range weapon.

I also realized that some weapons had a high reload downtime. Since this damage per second didn’t continue while a weapon was reloading these numbers weren’t completely helpful for weapons that only fire for a second or two then had the downtime of reloading. So I then determined damage over time up to 20 seconds of non stop firing including time it takes for each weapon to reload. The results show that some weapons do a good chunk of damage initially and have a high reload time resulting in high initial Dps but over a while of nonstop use the damage over time decreases. I understand most weapons aren’t used for 20 seconds, the most important thing this guide serves is to find Dps but it is definitely worth noting how much damage over time a weapon does when you have to use it non stop over time.

And so without further to do:

Quick info about weapon dmg I found or others have found:
- The order of best to worst dps melee is: All other melee, baseball bat, butterfly knife
- Snipers deal more damage over time if they shoot at first opportunity instead of waiting to charge (read more in weapon info)
- Sniper rifle bullets deal the same amount of dmg weather zoomed in or not with the exception of zoomed in charge bonuses.
- Hit locations don’t matter
- Damage dealt for each hit is less the farther you are from your target with the exception of sniper rifle, demo nades and most crits are constant at all ranges.

Crit info:
(Info compiled from Redcomet, Terminotaur’s and others)
I don’t think anyone fully understands crit rate increase, I have seen 3 posts doing tests that come up with different results. However I believe the following is true:
- Your chance to crit increases either by killing someone or by dealing damage (From what I can tell its still unknown which of the two), for a duration of time. That increase will also stack (as you deal more damage or kill more enemies.)
- Low health doesn’t increase crit chance.

Dps Quick Breakdown:

Best to worst weapons at Point Blank:
Minigun 500-550
FlameThrower: 204
Scattergun: 136-168
Grenade Launcher: 130-250 **
Rocket Launcher: 136-168
Sticky Bomb: 113-175 **
Shotgun: 128-144
Pistol: 120-132
Syringe Gun: 100-150 125
Revolver: 110-120
Sniper Rifle: 83-146 (Almost exactly same average as revolver) **
Machine Pistol: 100-120
All other Melee: 49-111
Baseball Bat: 60-90
Butterfly Knife: 35-65
Sniper rifle waiting for full charge each shot- 24-43 **

Best to worst weapons at Mid Range:
Minigun 150-180
Sticky Bomb: 113-175
Grenade Launcher: 130-250 **
Sniper Rifle: 83-146 **
Rocket Launcher: 63-113 **
Revolver: 63-81
Syringe Gun: 50-100
Pistol: 39-59
Machine Pistol: 38-56
Scattergun: 16-64
Sniper rifle waiting for full charge each shot- 24-43 **
Shotgun: 16-48
All Melee: N/A
FlameThrower: N/A – Although flamethrower doesn’t apply for mid range it’s max range (somewhere between PB and MR) deals 71dps (assuming single afterburn)

Best to worst weapons at Long Range:
Grenade Launcher: 130-250 **
Sticky Bomb: 113-175 **
Sniper Rifle: 83-146 **
Rocket Launcher: 56-75
Syringe Gun: 50-60
Machine Pistol: 38-56
Scattergun: 16-64
Sniper rifle waiting for full charge each shot- 24-43 **
Shotgun: 16-48
Revolver: 14-17
Minigun: 5-16
Pistol: 7-8
FlameThrower: N/A
All Melee: N/A

** Dps is constant regardless of range

When thinking about dps please remember other strengths include:

- Instant hit / dumbfire shots – Dps’s are calculated assuming every shot is hitting, but during play we know who wins if a syringe gun goes against a pistol long range.

- Guns that have a spread have higher rates of hitting in game at PB and MR then other weapons because they will often hits even when you miss.

- Guns that have a cone of fire could potentially be aiming at multiple targets grouped, this will increase their dps, for the purposes of this breakdown it assumes your aiming at only one enemy.

- Weapons with splash damage… have splash damage.

- Some weapons strengths aren’t damage over time but quick initial damage. Although the sniper rifle isn’t better to only fire when fully charged the last thing I want people to think is that this mean it isn’t a huge strength to deal 100+ damage when your shot charges, nor does it mean that having 8 sticky bombs blow up isn’t an incredible strength.

- Weapons that fire faster in combat have a better chance of hiting first, and by dealing damage first you could potentially kill a weak foe before they can attack. Who can deal dmg first is a huge strength in tf2 in general.
Full Weapon Statistics:

Info about the stats:
Damage (Dmg): Most damage info was taken from Promii’s damage post on the steam forums. Direct hits from single projectile weapons have lower damage at longer range. The only exceptions are Demoman nades, sniper rifle rounds, and crits from most weapons. Each weapon has 3 damage numbers point blank (PB), mid range (MR), and long range (LR). Mid range was calculated as main resupply door in 2fort to opposite wall and long range was determined as battlements to battlements in 2fort. Most damages are rounded to the nearest 5 unless small to begin with.

Shots per second (SPS): The rate of shots fired per second. For weapons that fire on a per click basis the rate is the maximum fire rate possible.

Accuracy: Some weapons have a cone of fire. And therefore the accuracy of those guns needs to be determined. Through the average of 8-10 trials of at least 50 shots per trial per location per gun the accuracy of each cone of fire weapon was determined. One shot spread guns (Shotey & Scattergun) don’t have an accuracy number because the dmg calculated already takes this into account. Weapon spread hitting multiple targets isn’t taken into account and would have a higher dps. Each gun’s accuracy was calculated with a single solder hit box target since it seemed a good middle size class.

Damage per second (Dps):
Dps is determined as follows: Damage x Shots per second x Spread accuracy (When applicable).

Damage over Time (DoT):
DoT is Dps over time while taking into account reload time: Dps x (Time Sampled – reload time.) DoT does not account for crits.

Primary weapons:
Scattergun:
Dmg: PB: 85-105 MR: 10-40 LR: 3-10
Ammo Loaded: 6
Rate of Fire: 1.6Sps
Full Reload Time: 4 Seconds
Accuracy: Has a large cone spread. Since dmg totals are calculated from spread fire accuracy is factored in dmg.
Dps: PB: 136-168 MR: 16-64 LR: 5-16
Crit Dmg: PB: 180
Crit Dps: 288

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 272-336 MR: 32-128 LR: 10-32
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 510-630 MR: 60-240 LR: 18-60
DoT 6 Seconds: Same as above (reloading until 7.75 seconds)
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 816-1008 MR: 96-384 LR: 29-96 (1.6 clips)
DoT 20 Seconds: PB:1530-1890 MR:180-720 LR: 30-96 (3 clips)

Rocket Launcher:
Dmg: PB: 105-115 MR: 50-90 LR: 45-60
Ammo Loaded: 4
Rate of Fire: 1.25Sps
Full Reload Time: 5 Seconds
Dps: PB: 131-144 MR: 63-113 LR: 56-75
Crit Dmg: all crits: 270
Crit Dps: 338

Max dmg before reload: PB: 420-460 MR: 200-320 LR: 180-240
DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 262.5-288 MR: 125-225 LR: 112.5-150
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 420-460 MR: 200-320 LR: 180-240
DoT 6 Seconds: Same as above (reloading until 8.2 seconds)
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 656-719 MR: 313-523 LR: 281-375
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 1319-1380 MR: 600-930 LR: 840-720

Flamethrower:
Dmg: PB: 15 Max R: 5
+ Afturburn: 40-60 Dmg (4-6Dps for 10 Seconds)
Ammo Carried: 200
Rate of Fire: 13.25Sps
Reload Time: N/A
Dps: PB: 204 Max R: 71 (1second afturburn included)
Crit info: Unknown

(Following totals include dmg for a single afturburn, add 4-6 damage per second for each aditional enemy hit)
DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 408 Max R: 142
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 816 Max R: 284
DoT 6 Seconds: PB: 1224 Max R: 426
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 2040 Max R: 710 (End first 50 dmg afterburn)
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 3100 Max R: 1100 (End 2nd 50 dmg afturburn & ammo fully out)

Minigun:
Dmg: PB: 50-55 MR: 25-30 LR: 5-10
Ammo Carried: 200
Rate of Fire: 10 Sps
Reload Time: N/A
Accuracy: PB: 100% MR: 60% LR: 12%
Dps: PB: 500-550 MR: 150-180 LR: 6-8
Crit Dmg: PB: 105 MR: 105 LR: 30
Crit Dps: 1050 MR: 630 LR: 36

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 1000-1100 MR: 300-360 LR: 12-16
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 2000-2200 MR: 600-720 LR: 24-32
DoT 6 Seconds: PB: 3000-3300 MR: 900-1080 LR: 36-48
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 5000-5500 MR: 1500-1800 LR: 60-80
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 10,000-11,000 MR: 3000-3600 LR: (All ammo used)

Grenade Launcher:
Dmg: 65-125
Ammo Loaded: 4
Rate of Fire: 2 Sps
Full Reload Time: 3 Seconds
Dps: 130-250
Crit Dmg: 295
Crit Dps: 590

DoT 2 Seconds: 260-500
DoT 4 Seconds: 260-500 (Reloading)
DoT 6 Seconds: 390-750
DoT 10 Seconds: 520-1000 (2 clips)
DoT 20 Seconds: 1040-2000 (4 clips)

Syringe Gun:
Dmg: PB: 10-15 MR: 5-10 LR: 5-6
Ammo Loaded: 40
Rate of Fire: 10 Sps
Full Reload Time: 1.5 Seconds
Dps: PB: 100-150 MR: 50-100 LR: 50-60
Crit Dmg: 30
Crit Dps: 300

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 200-300 MR: 100-200 LR: 100-120
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 400-600 MR: 200-400 LR: 200-240
DoT 6 Seconds: PB: 450-675 MR: 225-450 LR: 225-270 (Reloaded)
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 800-1200 MR: 400-800 LR: 200-240 (2 clips)
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 1550-2325 MR: 775-1550 LR: 775-930 (3.87 clips)

Sniper Rifle:
There are so many scenarios for varying levels of charge that I just maped the two extremes. Shooting without charging, and shooting only when your at full charge every time. These numbers have nothing to do with insta-kill headshots.
Dmg (All ranges): No Charge: 50-58 Charged: 110-195
Ammo Loaded: 1
Rate of Fire including reload time and fully charge wait: .22Sps
Rate of Fire including reload time no charge: .75Sps
Dps: No Charge: 38-44 Waiting for full charge 24-43
Crit Dmg: 50-300+ (No charge = 50)
Crit Dps (full charge): 300+ x .22 = ? Crit Dps (no charge): 38

DoT 2 Seconds: 166-292 Full charge: 48-86
DoT 4 Seconds: 332-584 Full charge: 96-172
DoT 6 Seconds: 498-876 Full charge:144-258
DoT 10 Seconds: 830-1460 Full charge: 240-430
DoT 20 Seconds: 1660-2920 Full charge: 480-860

Revolver:
Dmg: PB: 55-60 MR: 35-45 LR: 20-25
Accuracy: PB: 100% MR: 90% LR: 34%
Ammo Loaded: 6
Rate of Fire: 2 Sps
Full reload time: 1.5 Seconds
Dps: PB: 110-120 MR: 63-81 LR: 14-17
Crit Dmg: 120
Crit Dps: 240

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 220-240 MR: 126-162 LR: 27-34
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 330-360 MR: 189-243 LR: 41-51
DoT 6 Seconds: PB: 495-540 MR: 284-365 LR: 61-77
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 660-720 MR: 378-486 LR: 82-102
DoT 20 Seconds: 1540-1680 MR: 882-1134 LR: 190-238

Secondary weapons:
Pistol:
Dmg: PB: 20-22 MR: 10-15 LR: 8-9
Accuracy: PB: 100% MR: 65% LR: 15%
Ammo Loaded: 12
Rate of Fire: 6 Sps (Max)
Full reload time: 1.5 Seconds
Dps: PB: 120-132 MR: 39-59 LR: 7-8
Crit Dmg: 45
Crit Dps: 270

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 240-264 MR: 78-117 LR: 14-16
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 300-330 MR: 98-146 LR: 18-20
DoT 6 Seconds: PB: 480-528 MR: 156-234 LR: 29-32
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 720-792 MR: 234-351 LR: 43-49
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 960-1056 MR: 312-468 LR: 58-65 (Ammo out after 14 seconds)

Shotgun:
Dmg: PB: 80-90 MR: 10-30 LR: 3-10
Accuracy: Has a large cone spread. Since dmg totals are already calculated from spread dmg, its already factored in.
Ammo Loaded: 6
Rate of Fire: 1.6Sps
Full reload time: 4 Seconds
Dps: PB: 128-144 MR: 16-48 LR: 5-16
Crit Dmg: PB: 180
Crit Dps: 288

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 256-288 MR: 32-96 LR: 10-32
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 480-540 MR: 60-180 LR: 18-60
DoT 6 Seconds: (Same as above, Still reloading)
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 768-864 MR: 96-288 LR: 29-96 (Part of 2nd clip)
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 1440-1620 MR: 180-540 LR: 54-180 (3 clips)

Sticky Bomb:
Dmg: 90-140
Ammo Loaded: 8
Rate of Fire: 1.25Sps
Full reload time: 7 Seconds
Dps: 113-175
Max det dmg: 720-1120
Crit Dmg: >300
Crit Dps: >300 x 1.25

DoT 2 Seconds: 226-350
DoT 4 Seconds: 452-700
DoT 6 Seconds: 678-1050
DoT 10 Seconds: (Same Reloading)
DoT 20 Seconds: 1356-2100

Machine Pistol:
Dmg: PB: 10-12 MR: 4-6 LR: 4-5
Ammo Loaded: 25
Accuracy: PB: 100% MR: 94% LR: 32%
Rate of Fire: 10 Sps
Full reload time: 1.5 Seconds
Dps: PB: 100-120 MR: 38-56 LR: 13-16
Crit Dmg: 24
Crit Dps: 240 MR: 226 LR: 77

DoT 2 Seconds: PB: 200-220 MR: 76-112 LR: 26-32
DoT 4 Seconds: PB: 250-280 MR: 95-140 LR: 33-40
DoT 6 Seconds: PB: 450-500 MR: 171-252 LR: 59-72
DoT 10 Seconds: PB: 700-840 MR: 266-392 LR: 92-112
DoT 20 Seconds: PB: 1000-1200 MR: 380-560 LR: 132-160 (All ammo used in 14.5 seconds)

Melee weapons:
Baseball Bat:
Dmg: 30-45
Rate of Fire: 2 Sps
Dps: 60-90
Crit Dmg: 105
Crit Dps: 210

Butterfly Knife:
Dmg: 30-50
Rate of Fire: 1.3 Sps
Dps: 39-65
Crit Dmg: Cannot Crit! (THIS WEAPON CANNOT CRIT, IT CAN BACKSTAB INSTA-KILL. BUT THIS DOESN’T APPLY TO THE CRIT RULES)
Crit Dps: Cannot Crit!

All other Melee:
Dmg: 45-85
Rate of Fire: 1.3 Sps
Dps: 59-111
Crit Dmg:195
Crit Dps: 254

Other Notes:
Everything in here I attempted to find information that I could not find available and as such if you find something that doesn’t jive please respectfully let me know and I will do my best to update the information.

The only two things I can think of to make this more accurate is to get a more accurate dmg average spread for weapons. The integrity of these dps mostly are through trust that Promii’s assessments were accurate. In addition the dps and dot’s are damage delt per second not damage received per second, therefore dumbfire rounds that take awhile to hit could be calculated but I feel that is pretty un-necessary and tedious. However I am confident that my accuracy numbers and Rate of Fire numbers are accurate and have been tested to an almost un-necessary degree. Thank god I am done with this guide so I can actually play tf2 instead of shoot many hundreds of bullets into a guy standing still and counting which ones hit.

Oh yea and can someone get this stuff in the tf2 wiki? I’m done working on this ????.

Thanks
Promii – For making the first good dmg breakdown guide
Redcomet & Terminotaur – for trying to find out what’s up with crits
James (Genx) – For counting bullet hits
Kaeotic – For counting bullet hits
Detour31 – For counting bullet hits
A|D|A mustate – for telling some guy to ???? off